As I was making the changes for Fit03, I realized there wasn’t much more I could change. I’d already let out the seam allowances to the max. I wouldn’t be taking those suckers in. I might scoop the crotch but so far the crotch looked fine. It was ease across the butt that concerned me. I might fold the waistband casing a little differently, but not much. So why was I basting? I switched out the WST bobbin and finished the pants in total.
I did let out the back crotch that barely 1/8″.
Please note the two colors of lines. The orange line is the original 3/8″ stitching line which goes all the way around the curve. I let out above the curve stitching on the purple line just across from the fullest part of my butt. The crotch curve itself was unchanged which is especially important. Nearly all the time time I must scoop the bottom of the crotch. Depending upon fabric and on occasion, even my beloved TJ906 will need scoping. I have not scooped Sally although I admit that might be a possibility if in the future I try again to remove some ease over the back crotch.
I also folded the cut edge of the waist down 1.25″ at CF and CB. At the side seams the fold is 2″. After stitching at 1.25″ from the folded edge I trimmed the waist SA to be an even 1/4″. I did press. I put the pants on and walked about for 3 or 4 minutes before taking pics. I wanted them to settle into place. Truthfully, I expected my pants to look a little better.
yet, I’m not entirely unhappy. I won’t be able to wear these over another pair of pants and I will depend upon a 3rd layer to cover my tush. At least there isn’t any VPL and the diagonals are significantly reduced. Bottom line, these are hanging in my closet for possible wear. Compared side by side or as the processors may rearrange First Fitting above 3rd
The 3rd fitting does look better.
I’m not sure what to think about the underlining. I don’t recall an underlining changing size. I don’t remember needing additional ease for underlining or even sewing at a 1/2″ instead of 5/8″ SA. But I know my Sally I looked (to me) like it fit in the butt while Sally 2 looks too tight.
An interesting note is that I intended to attempt reducing the excess ease over the thigh. However, after releasing the side seams and adding ease from waist to hem, I didn’t notice the excess ease. Is this because of the added ease? The difference in fabrics? The difference in fibers? A result of underlining? All I know is that I dont feel like I’m grabbing or experiencing excess ease over the thigh.
I’ve added 3/4″ ease to the back pattern piece. I did so by splitting along the SOG, inserting new tissue and taping back together. This does mean I’ve added 3/4″ at the waist, the complained about thigh and hem. This is not what I want for a year round trouser. Not even for the summer trouser. For the summer trouser, I will add another inch of ease, shared between front and back. For the fall/winter? I’m still thinking.
Should be easy, right? Just pull out one of TNTs and start sewing? But I made a grave error last year. I got so excited wih the very idea that I even could fit pants using Peggy Sagers procedures that I tossed all my pant TNTs. All except TJ906 because it’s a jean and it doesn’t ever need fitting. When I was evaluating pants for spring and summer, I was shocked to see all those pants I fit using Peggy’s procedure had developed X wrinkles. I don’t think this is Peggy’s fault or that her procedure is at fault. I think I’m missing some critical piece of information. I need the answer to exactly why are my pants distorted through wear? (Remember they were beautiful when first fit and in pictures taken in the next few weeks). I need exacts that I can translate into pattern alterations. In the mean time, I still need pants to wear. Specifically, I want loose pants for summer. “Loose” so on those days that start nice but get windy and cool, I don’t need to change pants. Just pull these loose pants over whatever I’m already wearing. Or on those blistering, hot days, those days I know I must cover up my legs or cope with 2nd degree sunburn, I can slip these loose pant on- without shorts beneath- and be protected from the sun but not overheated as I would be with in a good pair of jeans. I’m continuing to work with Sally’s Pant because I think the majority of my fit issues are already solved whereas with my other pants patterns I need to start from scratch..
To use this pattern year round, I’d want to reduce the hem circumference and reduce the excess ease over the back thigh. Well, for summer loose pants, I don’t need to worry at all about the hem circumference. I may even want a little more. But I do think I’d like to take away at least some of that thigh ease. I carefully looked at the inseams of the tissue. I shortened the legs by folding out 3.5″ at the knee level then trued the inseam and side seam with my curve and ruler. Especially after watching Suzy Furrer draft a pants sloper, I’m wondering if I could draw the inseam different. I saw her plot a few points and then freehand draw in the crotch. With the inseam, she shifted a hip curve, not the french curve, up and down until she found a curve she liked. Those two important curves were determined not by body shape but by whim. Is that how all pattern makers draft pants? I’m thinking I should be looking more intently and adjusting that curve to correspond with my body. So the next pair is going to be another test/muslin garment but I’m crossing my fingers hoping I can make a wearable.
Even so, I chose fabric from the stash pile. It’s a 56″ wide cotton/poly with aqua, white and peach stripes. It’s a nice fabric except that aqua color has never matched or been in the same hue range as any other blue I’ve ever purchased. It is also transparent/semi-transparent. Do I really want to make pants that show my polka-dot panties? I have several similar fabrics I’ve purchased over the years with which I wanted to make light weight pants. The fabrics looked fine in the store (or the online pic with description), but single layer in my hands look far too transparent. I’ve decided to work on solutions for the opaqueness with the promise that if I can’t find easy solutions, all those fabrics will go in the muslin stash. I mean, I don’t want to keep pulling fabrics out and putting them away because they don’t meet my transparency requirements. Neither do I want to donate a box of beautiful fabrics. I’ve got one idea to try: underlining with another transparent fabric. Because it is summer, I don’t want to use any of my poly fabrics. Don’t want to use any of the crinkle fabrics. Don’t want to use patterned fabrics that would grin through. After rejecting my way through the stash, I finally ordered a 100% cotton voile. I like the weight, the transparency. Don’t like the shrinkage (2 yards became 1-3/4). Don’t like the wrinkle. But I’m using it for this pair of pants. If it works, I plan to order more.
I have a clear view of what I want my summer pants to look like. Long legs, yes. But because these are a “quick change garment” and to minimize the bulk when wearing 2 pairs of pants (at the same time) I want to make pull-on pants with a 1″ wide elastic waistband. That’s nobody’s favorite look and certainly not flattering to me. It is possible to achieve this style with a separate waistband. However, I decided to make a cut on waistband to again minimize bulk but especially because it makes sewing time so much shorter. No zipper. No waistband. That much less sewing. But I extended 2-3/4″ upward from the waist. This edge will be folded down 1.5″ and stitched at 3/8″ before inserting the elastic. I didn’t alter the pattern piece. I chalked it on the fabric and wrote down details for future reference. The downside to the cut-on waistband is that I definitely have to have 2-1/4″ yards of fabric. A separate waistband is fabric conserving. A cut-on is not.
One more note before we get going. Peggy is absolutely right that neither serge finishing nor underlining are not faster than lining a garment. I cut fabric, underlining and then serged around all 4 sides of all 4 pieces. Whatever time I saved by skipping the zipper and separate waistband was more than consumed by the underlining. Still, I prefer to either serge-finish or underline. Once the serging is done (I realize I could have basted the sides instead of serging), I’m no longer dealing with 8 pieces but 4. At that point, making a single garment instead 0f 2 which much be joined. Also, an underlined garment is easier for me to iron. A lining always drives me nuts at the ironing board. I just can’t seem to manipulate the lining and fashion fabric equally. Usually I settle for making the fashion fabric look good and console myself with the idea that the lining won’t show. IOW no one will know my lining is wrinkled is because I couldn’t iron it.
The first fitting :
Let’s be honest, it could have been a lot worse. Instead I noted that the butt was tighter than expected. Did the wool of Muslin 1 really adapt that much or is it that the 2 layers (fashion fabric + underlining) were much less… um…. forgiving? I noted that the X wrinkles are beginning to form at my knees. The front and sides seem to be most affected by extra length between waist and hip (diagonal drag lines from waist to high hip). Is that because I chalked in the waistband or again the change in fabric? Or because I made an on-the-fly adaptation? I had planned to fold down 1.5″ and stitch 3/8″ from the cut edge. The elastic wouldn’t feed through so restitched at 1/4″ from the edge. I think the pants could have gained about 1/4″ length at the waist.
For fitting #2, I folded the waistband at the side seams 1-3/4″ (instead of the 1.5″ planned) and restitched the WB 1.25″ from the folded edge vs the cut edge. I restitched the legs with a 1/4″ seam allowance .
The butt is still too tight and there’s not much more I can do. Both side and inseams are stitched with 1/4″. seam allowances I can’t let them out any more. I can let the back crotch out 1/8″ which will add total 1/4″ ease across. An interesting point on both Fit 01 and 02 is that the side seams appear to be perpendicular to the floor. The front now has too much ease. It is larger and looser than what I would normally prefer. The butt still too tight. Why isn’t the side seam pulling towards the back? I know that has happened to me in the past. Shirley Adams clearly illustrated this in her series. But it seems as though it doesn’t happen anymore to my pants. The back does not take the ease it needs from side and front. Why not? What has changed?
I’m pleased with that most of the diagonal lines have disappeared beneath the waist. Maybe a little more adjustment is needed?
For fit 3 I’m making 2 changes: 1) release the back crotch seam 1/8″; 2) shorten the side seam another 1/4″ ie. fold down 2″ stitch at 1.25″
I purchased this pattern sometime ago, I think late 2016. I dwaddled and delayed when it came to using and fitting because my previous experiences with Silhouette Patterns have not been wonderful. I finally decided I wanted to do this now. I have a number of woven, non-stretch fabrics I’d like to use as pants. I want a narrower leg then my other patterns produce. Not a skinny. But a slim leg 16-17″ in circumference at most 18″. I am unable to tweak the leg of any of my patterns down to that circumference. I have tried. When I do, my pants develop really awful X wrinkles in the back. I’m hoping the key to success is starting with a pattern that has been drafted for the mature figure and for the smaller circumference.
I used Peggy’s sitting measurement method i.e. I draped the tape measure around my hips and sat down. Knowing that I like semi-fitted to semi-loose clothing, I allowed the tape measure to slip just a bit more and noted that number. Then I compared the regular and the W sizing. I fit Peggy’s description of the small woman who has added padding. I looked at the W and the regular back and opted to use the W. Let me share a pic of the crotch
The regular does not have that nice long ledge called a crotch extension. The regular would probably be suitable for the typical 65-year-old who complains they have no butt. I have the issue of being as deep as I am broad and I need that ledge. I compared it with my fitted PP113
PP113 is the pattern on top with all the red, yellow, cut and pasting. The new 3400 back just barely peeks out beneath the crotch extension, on the inseam and up at the waist side-seam. While there are differences, the two backs are a lot alike which gave me hope. The truth is, my shape is my shape. Any pattern which is going to fit me, is going to fit my shape and is probably going to look a lot like other patterns which fit my shape.
For the record, I chose size 24W. (In retrospect, I might have been able to go down 1 size.)
I’m really having problems choosing test fabric. Although I’ve added several more to the muslin stack, I never seem to have good test-fabrics. I used a balanced weave poly/cotton fabric. Quite old. I’m sure I bought this fabric years ago. I’m also sure I bought pants and blouses made from this fabric. (Back when I didn’t have time to sew, I bought whether it fit or not.) It is a light weight fabric and looks crappy just sitting on the ironing board. No amount of starch improved its looks. But it was good enough to diagnose major wrinkles.
I cut my fabric with an extra 1″ seam allowance along the side and in- seams. I trimmed the hems off with a pinking blade. I had no desire to pin up or stitch hems but I didn’t want the excess length to contribute extra wrinkles. I basted everything together with water-soluble thread in the bobbin. That includes adding the waistband. Peggy fits without the waistband attached. It’s one of those personal experience things. My experience is that I start with a waistband that fits or I redo all the fitting when I finally attach the waistband. YMMV. Peggy certainly does not agree.
As much as possible, I intended to follow Peggy’s fitting procedure, but I couldn’t resist looking at the fresh-from-the-envelope fit:
I’ve had worse. The first fitting at least felt comfortable; the back X wasn’t prominent; nor was the keyhole front.
I settled the crotch into position. The back crotch looked OK . So instead of an even tuck I made a 1/2″ dart across the front which narrowed to 1/4″ at the side seams and continued across the back terminating just under the dart next to the back crotch. I could not resist at this point taking a little ease from the front and made a 1/4″ vertical tuck. It is entirely usual for me to make a vertical tuck of 1/2″ on the front then spread the back vertically 1″ thereby transferring ease from front to back. I know what Peggy says about circumference. My body, my sewing for my body repeatedly suggests taking ease from the front and putting it in the back. Peggy’s directions make sense (circumference is circumference) and I’ve wondered why my garments don’t just use the ease on the front. Why don’t they just pull what they need from the front with the only indication of error being a side seam curving? I don’t know. But you can clearly see that the front above looks too large; while the front below looks fine.
Still some issues with the back. So I made a 1/2″ hip line dart as Peggy advises:
Well photos could be better. As I said before, the fabric did not respond to starch. Also since I had WST in the bobbin I was spraying carefully to avoid seams and ironing with a dry iron. I was especially pleased that the back leg is falling relatively nicely. There aren’t any X wrinkles. The front crotch hints at an issue, but it’s not bad enough for me to fix right now. It could after all be the crappy fabric. I did make a few other tweaks in a few other fittings. I tried to pinch out a little ease along the side seam, but then I got VPL. Reset the waistband up and down 1/8-1/4″ but decided that wasn’t helping either. I also extended the crotch depth adjustments completely across the back (earlier I had terminated it under the darts)…
…which seemed to help. But I decided overall the changes I was making weren’t improving the fit. So it was time for a decent fabric. When I started transferring the alterations to the tissue, I realized I had inadvertently add 3/4″ to the hem circumference (shouldn’t that be mostly offset by the 1/2″ ease I removed from the front?). When cutting, I had added 1″ fit insurance to the side and in seams. The side seams were stitched at 1-3/8″ (Peggy uses a 3/8″ SA). But I stitched the inseams at 1″ which added 3/8″ ease to hems and crotch. I took a few minutes to correct that error and regretted it as soon as I saw the pics:
I think that’s especially interesting when you look back up at the tissue pictures and see how similar the crotches are.
My tissue alterations became:
Leg Length -3.5″
Front and back crotch extensions+3/8″
Crotch length 1/4″ tuck (evenly across front, side,back)
Hem Allowance 1.25″
waist no change (3/8″
crotch no change (3/8″)
Side seam 1/2″
copied from PP113 with side seams and belt loops marked
I also made an inseam pocket pattern piece.
I must have chosen, ironed and put away 10 fabrics when trying to choose for a ‘real’ pant. I wasn’t wild about the final fit of the test pair. Even knowing that fabric was wrong and old couldn’t alleviate the unease I was feeling. My final choice was a herringbone-weave, tropical-weight wool. In days gone by, I would have shopped long and hard for such a fabric. Tropical weight wool could be worn most of the year excepting the very hottest weeks in summer. I knew a few women who wore it even then. Tropical weight wool seemed wrinkle resistant; would give almost like denim. Was long wearing. Weight gain seemed to be its greatest enemy. But my life is more casual now. Fabrics perfect for the office have become dress-up items . I wanted to make casual pants. I opted to make the dressier tropical-weight wool because if this bombed, I probably wouldn’t mind. I stitched with poly thread in both the bobbin and needle as well as the serger. I serged the inseams as well as finishing all the other raw edges with the serger. I did baste the waistband in place for the first fitting. But I hadn’t needed to. After examining those pics, I went back down stairs and finished the pants.
Despite the pic on the index page, I’m not loving these pants. I find it odd that the back of the pants in fitting looked better than the finished pair.
Fitting ———————– Finished
What’s with that? The change is hemming the legs and nailing down the waistband. Yet the finished back looks worse than the fitting.
Again hemming and stitching the waistband produced a front with a keyhole
Really? I will admit that I saw hints of the keyhole all the way back to Fit01 of Muslin 1. It just wasn’t this prominent. Good news though, when I get dressed “It” is covered.
Never underestimate the value of styling and accessories!
There’s a predictable series of question that need answering. Things we dressmakers are always have interest. but I won’t answer them in PR Order. I already indicated size and fabric choices and a laundry list of changes I made. I didn’t follow the pattern instructions. I followed the instructions that Peggy sprinkles through-out her YouTube videos. For anyone that is a visual learner, I’d recommend self-immersion in the videos. You’ll see her process over and over with many different types of bodies.
Would you recommend it to others? Yes, absolutely. Peggy’s drafting is above reproach. My changes result from my fitting issues. Other than my fitting issues, I had no problems with the pattern. The final pair, I cut, stitched, did Fit 01 and finished in about 2 hours time. It doesn’t get better than that for me.
Would you sew it again? YES. In fact I’m planning 2 pairs with some style changes.
What did you particularly like or dislike about the pattern? Let me start with LIKES
That was probably the easiest choosing size process I’ve ever used. I didn’t measure the pattern in multiple places. Didn’t check crotch length/depth. Just let the tape measure go limp.
Despite the length and verbiage of this post, that’s the fastest I think I’ve fit pants since I was a kid. Definitely beats the 9 month I spent in 2003/4. I did follow Peggy’s steps. Because I’m fitting alone it takes me a little longer that the 5-7 minutes she shows in the videos. Peggy pins, visually checks and asks her model. I pinch, then baste, take pics. Repeat. I make one change at a time. When Peggy is fitting, she pins one area at a time then continues the next. Her model’s pants baste the 3-4 changes needed in one trip to the sewing machine. Even with the extra time I need for taking pics, trotting upstairs and processing photos, I was able to fit this pattern in about 6 hours including choosing size, fabric and cutting said fabric.
Just one: Leg and Hem circumference. I put these two together because one affects the other. I knew from the very first try-on that the back leg had too much ease. I didn’t complain because I thought I would fit it out.
All this ease makes for a big, elephant-leg appearance which I could not remove. Unfortunately my butt needs the circumference. I can’t just tuck from waist to hem and remove the ease. I know I added to the problem when I inadvertently added 3/8″ to the crotch points. I couldn’t remove those either. I tried. When I took in the inseam the crotch cut into both front and back as well as inseams rippling, pulling upward and general ugliness. I need the crotch length.
I am really unhappy with the hem circumference. My leg finished at 21-3/4″. Without my error, it would have been 21″. Why do I care? Because the back of the envelope said
21″ is a long way from the 17″ I was promised. I bought this pattern this pattern because it advertised a 17″ hem circumference. 17.5″ would be close. 21 is not. I’m very unhappy with hem circumference and I DO NOT THINK THE GARMENT LOOKS LIKE THE ENVELOPE. (Sorry, Wordpress only gives me so many tool to emphasize a point). The leg on the envelope looks much, much slimmer than the leg in my pics.
So what’s in my future for this pattern? I’m wanting a couple of very casual summer pants. I envision them with 22-24″ hems, in light weight, flowing fabrics. While my standard hem is 1.25″ I think this is a place for a deeper hem 2″ at least maybe 3″. Depends upon how much fabric I have because hem’s are a place where fabric can be conserved or consumed. The 21″ hem will be easy to adapt for my desired 22-24″. I will scoop the front crotch a little. I already tried adjusting the crotch depth and length as well as messing the waistband. I’m convinced now that the curve is wrong in relation to my body. It could be just fine for you. Beyond that, I’m just not sure. I could try regular instead of women’s sizing. I could curve the inseam more and revisit the correction I made when removing leg length. (Just a note, I removed leg length at about the knee level so I could leave the 17″ hem intact.) Frankly, I could do a lot of work trying to reach a 20″ hem, but I already have 2 patterns that do. I have no hope of turning the 21″ circumference into 17. None.
It may be time to admit that my body needs either jeans draft (TJ906), a stretch pant/jean (DG2) or a women’s trouser (PP113, Eureka) with a 19-20″ hem. It may be time to let go of the woven-pant-with-17″-hem dream. I’ve certainly thrown enough patterns, fabric and time at that dream. Maybe it’s better to pursue something else?