sdBev's Pants!

Talia: Comparing Tissues

Posted on: March 28, 2016

I really did want to know why Fabric 03 was a wadder instead of at least wearable.  I started by reviewing my fabrics and pattern changes.

TISSUE 01

  1. Fabric 1 was a cotton/poly shirting. Woven. No Lycra i.e. no stretch.
  2. I traced size 18 (2 sizes larger than Style Arc recommends)  and applied the following changes:
  3. Leg Length
    1. -2″ above the knee
    2. -2″ below the hem.
  4. Crotch
    1. +1″ to back extension
    2. +1″ top of back crotch
  5. Seam Allowances
    1. +7/8 side seams
  6. Knee Knock
    1. 1/4″ add to inseam remove from side seam.
  7. Trued all seams

TISSUE 02

  1. Fabric 02 Muslin 02 using a loosely woven 100% rayon.
  2. Traced Tissue 01
  3. Removed the KK
  4. Crotch
    1. -4″ Hip line
    2. +4″ Rise

Summary of changes To Tissue 02

  • Fabric loosely woven 100% rayon
  • I traced size 18 (2 sizes larger than Style Arc recommends)  and applied the following changes:
  • Leg Length
    • -2″ above the knee
    • -2″ below the hem.
  • Crotch
    • +1″ to back extension
    • +1″ top of back crotch
    • -4″ Back Hip Line Dart
    • +4″ Back Rise
  • Seam Allowances
    • +7/8 side seams
  • All seams trued (I thought)

 

TISSUE 03

  1. Fabric cotton/lycra twill
  2. Retraced Size 18
  3. Leg Length
    1. -2″ above the knee
    2. -2″ below the hem.
  4. Crotch
    1. +1″ to back extension
    2. +1″ top of back crotch
    3. -4″ Back Hip Line Dart
    4. +4″ Back Rise
  5. Seam Allowances
    1. +1/2 side seams
  6. All seams trued (I thought)

Fabric 03, should be hanging in my closet now, which I is why I decided to compare Tissues 02 and 03. I wanted to regain the fit produced with Tissue 02 and did not consider Tissue 01.

I started with the fronts because I thought it would be quickest since the fewest changes were made to the fronts.  I discovered 2 differences between Tissue 02 and 03

  1. Grainline
    1. Tissue 02 was definitely skewed which made me wonder how on earth Muslin 02 could have possibly looked as good in front.
  2. Inseam length
    1.  short 3/8 between knee notch and hem.

My conclusion is that the front of Tissue 03 should have looked better than the front of Tissue02.  But it didn’t. In fact, one person commented that it appeared I had not cut the front at all but instead cut the back twice.

So I turned my attention to the backs. They weren’t that different. In fact they were more identical than the fronts. Until I looked at the

  1. angle of the crotch (as it sits in the back)
    1. aligned on top of each other, they were identical but the waists joined the back at a different angle.
    2. aligned the waists, and the back crotches are situated and angled differently.

When crotches are aligned, waists are not. Red LIne denotes Tissue 03 waist. Tissue 02 lies below and its waist extends above the Red Line.

When waists are aligned (which automatically happens when the pant is sewn) Tissue 03 Crotch drops and changes angle.

I’ve made a lot of pants. I’m absolutely convinced it’s not just a matter of enough length in the rise. The angle of the rise makes a huge difference. Many years and pounds ago, I had a pant pattern that was corrected entirely by changing its ski-slope back crotch  to an upright position.  Currently, I need more alterations than that. To put it politely, I have generous seating room. Which means that a tiny slit in the fabric (yes, I did have someone tell me all you needed was a slit) or the more commonly test-tube/vial crotch seen in the Big 4, will never give me a comfortable, nice looking pant.  I know my back rise is longer than front (also called tilted waist) and that I need the back crotch extension to be 1″ longer.  Even in Burda, the Euro Cut, patterns, I need to add to the back crotch extension. The last year I’ve been considering I might need a knock knee alterations as well. I think Tissue 02 Muslin 02 proved that’s not an issue for me.

So what’s next?  I need another muslin, hopefully wearable.

 

 

 

 

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8 Responses to "Talia: Comparing Tissues"

Such a relatively slight difference, but what a difference it made in the pants. Just a curiosity question, how does the back compare to the Eleanor, I think that was the name of the pattern made by Jalie. They seemed to fit well in the back. I hope this works for you.

The Eleanor requires 20% stretch. Talia, supposedly, is drafted for non-stretch wovens which require shaping. A knit can adapt (stretch) around body curves where a non-stretch woven cannot. Havent compared the two patterns and wont because they are drafted for different fabric characteristics. Hope that’s not terribly rude. I dont mean to be offensive just explain why I wont invest my sewing time along those lines.

Keep sewing. It keeps you sane, well I think it keeps me sane. Others may disagree.

beb

Oh not rude at all. I had forgotten the other pattern was made for 20% stretch fabric. I was looking through the Pants for Real People. On page 56 they show the back with the same wrinkles which go from the knee to the hip. They stated it was due to a full high hip. Their solution was to pull the side down until the wrinkles disappeared, add the necessary length to the side seam, then take out the fullness in the back leg.

I don’t know if this is something you’ve tried but I would assume you have. I just appreciate your sharing your pants fitting journey. I just hope my health improves so I can get back to my own fitting issues.

I also don’t want to come across as being rude or offensive. I just hope you find a solution.

I feel your comments are thoughtful musings, never rude. So we’re good, at least in my mind. I have the P&P books. Have tried most of their suggestions. I think my biggest problems is I cant read the wrinkles or maybe it’s the most common cause of the wrinkles never seems to be my issue.

The comparisons show just how much difference small changes make. I really hope you get a pattern you are happy with – you certainly deserve one.

I find this study on pants very interesting. When you find your answer, we will all love to know how it worked out. I am learning so much from this post.

I just remembered you asked about elastic. Here’s the one I’ve been using for years — http://www.thesewingplace.com/Sew-Through-Elastic-p/ne-st.htm

I never cared for the elastic Cutting sells — it does not hold my pants up.

Thank you. So many seem reluctant to acknowledge what I’m experiencing. I need an elastic that will hold my pants up without being stiff and uncooperative. I will purchase and try out this elastic.

bev

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